• Energy

    From Limawhiskey@VERT/HDCBBS to All on Mon Jul 10 19:10:53 2023
    We have come up with some carbon capture devices. Frankly I think part of the solution to reducing our footprint is reducing how much we live with. My generation just lives in a disposable world and always feels the need to have the latest and greatest. You can get by just fine with much less. The amount of disposable plastic in our lives is a great prime example adding to that floating ocean trash heap. Apparently we are all full of microplastics as well, so that's great... beats the lead paint of yester year?

    I think as we make technology more compact and capable without using as much power we can do a lot better than some analog devices as far as energy managment in the home, but until we all live a bit simpler, I do not see it improving.

    _LW99

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  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANTIR to Limawhiskey on Mon Jul 10 20:25:00 2023
    Limawhiskey wrote to All <=-

    We have come up with some carbon capture devices. Frankly
    I think part of the solution to reducing our footprint is
    reducing how much we live with. My generation just lives in a
    disposable world and always feels the need to have the latest and greatest. You can get by just fine with much less. The amount of disposable plastic in our lives is a great prime example adding
    to that floating ocean trash heap. Apparently we are all full of microplastics as well, so that's great... beats the lead paint of
    yester year?

    I think as we make technology more compact and capable
    without using as much power we can do a lot better than some
    analog devices as far as energy managment in the home, but until
    we all live a bit simpler, I do not see it improving.

    Uh-huh. You first.



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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Limawhiskey on Tue Jul 11 06:42:00 2023
    Limawhiskey wrote to All <=-

    The amount of disposable plastic in our lives
    is a great prime example adding to that floating ocean trash heap.

    I've heard talk of the number of empty disposable water bottles in the middle-east from the seemingly endless wars is untenable - an Army
    report cited 864,000 bottles a month, with more in hot months.

    Whatever happened to canteens?




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  • From Limawhiskey@VERT/HDCBBS to poindexter FORTRAN on Tue Jul 11 15:09:40 2023
    Re: Re: Energy
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Limawhiskey on Tue Jul 11 2023 06:42 am

    I was issued two canteens when I was in. I mostly used my camelback / hydration bladder. I never had water given in bottles. Mostly in tanks or in water cans when I was in South Korea. Not sure as to why that was normal, but I put no bounds on the strange and stupid that lines the thoughts of the DOD.

    I do not know if anyone heard it yet, I have seen some mentions of it, but a homeless man gets on post at Ft. Stewart, GA. He then proceeded to steal a HMMWV and crash it into the front doors of the Division HQ. Like I said, I wouldn't put it past them.

    -LW99

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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to poindexter FORTRAN on Tue Jul 11 23:32:00 2023
    Re: Re: Energy
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Limawhiskey on Tue Jul 11 2023 06:42 am

    Limawhiskey wrote to All <=-

    The amount of disposable plastic in our lives
    is a great prime example adding to that floating ocean trash heap.

    I've heard talk of the number of empty disposable water bottles in the middle-east from the seemingly endless wars is untenable - an Army
    report cited 864,000 bottles a month, with more in hot months.

    Whatever happened to canteens?




    ... Overtly resist change

    Bottled water is convenient because it's already in disposable bottles. No need to fill canteens.

    In places where water is scarce, it is easier to truck in pallets of bottled water than it is to install a water purifier that requiresparts and
    maintenence to keep them operable.

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  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Moondog on Wed Jul 12 15:06:07 2023
    Re: Re: Energy
    By: Moondog to poindexter FORTRAN on Tue Jul 11 2023 23:32:00

    Bottled water is convenient because it's already in disposable bottles. No need to fill canteens.

    In places where water is scarce, it is easier to truck in pallets of bottled water than it is to install a water purifier that requiresparts and maintenence to keep them operable.

    Or, they could use large, reusable water tanks of already purified water (that would otherwise be in tiny bottles) and introduce less waste and micro plastics to the environment.


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  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANTIR to Tracker1 on Wed Jul 12 16:14:00 2023
    Tracker1 wrote to Moondog <=-

    Bottled water is convenient because it's already in disposable bottles. No need to fill canteens.

    In places where water is scarce, it is easier to truck in pallets of bottled water than it is to install a water purifier that requiresparts and maintenence to keep them operable.

    Or, they could use large, reusable water tanks of already
    purified water (that would otherwise be in tiny bottles) and
    introduce less waste and micro plastics to the environment.

    I think maybe you don't have a good understanding of how the military operates, and what their priorities are.



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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Tracker1 on Thu Jul 13 12:49:00 2023
    Re: Re: Energy
    By: Tracker1 to Moondog on Wed Jul 12 2023 03:06 pm

    Re: Re: Energy
    By: Moondog to poindexter FORTRAN on Tue Jul 11 2023 23:32:00

    Bottled water is convenient because it's already in disposable bottles. need to fill canteens.

    In places where water is scarce, it is easier to truck in pallets of bottled water than it is to install a water purifier that requiresparts and maintenence to keep them operable.

    Or, they could use large, reusable water tanks of already purified water (th


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    Large water tanks require space to accomodate their form factor. If large enough, they require equipment to load and unload them. If a pallet full of small water bottles had to be unloaded and no lift truck or pallet jack was available, the contents could be unloaded by hand. Cut the packing wrap and grab some bottles.

    Re-usable and refillable containers makes sense without a doubt. They have
    to be cleaned from time to time. Pre-bottled water is more convenient and if
    a bottle is damaged or leaks, it is less of a loss than larger container or bl adder.

    My brother and I used to camp alot and weight and space were critical when backpacking. The property we had access to was downstream from a hog farm,
    so collecting and purifying local water was not preffered. If we were
    camping for several days, we would have to pack our water in. I had a larger water carrier that looked like a jerry can. That was fine if we were riding ATV's, but with packs only it was easier to stuff all loose space with
    bottled water. The bottles could be crushed or collapsed, so packing out our waste wasn't a problem.

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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Gamgee on Thu Jul 13 13:10:00 2023
    Re: Re: Energy
    By: Gamgee to Tracker1 on Wed Jul 12 2023 04:14 pm

    Tracker1 wrote to Moondog <=-

    Bottled water is convenient because it's already in disposable bottles. need to fill canteens.

    In places where water is scarce, it is easier to truck in pallets of bottled water than it is to install a water purifier that requiresparts and maintenence to keep them operable.

    Or, they could use large, reusable water tanks of already
    purified water (that would otherwise be in tiny bottles) and
    introduce less waste and micro plastics to the environment.

    I think maybe you don't have a good understanding of how the military operates, and what their priorities are.



    ... All the easy problems have been solved.

    Pallet s of bottled water is an off the shelf commercial solution that is easily transportable. The bottles have a long shelf life.

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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANTIR to Limawhiskey on Thu Jul 13 12:09:16 2023
    Re: Energy
    By: Limawhiskey to All on Mon Jul 10 2023 07:10 pm

    We have come up with some carbon capture devices. Frankly I think pa > atest. You can get by just fine with much less. The amount of disposable pla > of yester year?

    I think as we make technology more compact and capable without using >
    _LW99

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    Well, I made my point in other net: lots of modern technology consume the most of their energy at built time rather than during their useful life.

    ie. a computer is likely going to cost more energy to produce than it will consume during its useful life.

    Frankly, it makes more sense to keep using old cars and computers and devices until they break down than it does to build a more efficient one to replace a working old machine.

    The problem is that with this efficency craze we have started, we are achievingthe opposite effect of what s intended. If you use an old car you will see
    people get angry at you because you are taking the ecological option instead ofgetting a more efficient car XD

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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANTIR to Gamgee on Thu Jul 13 12:18:17 2023
    Re: Re: Energy
    By: Gamgee to Limawhiskey on Mon Jul 10 2023 08:25 pm

    I think as we make technology more compact and capable
    without using as much power we can do a lot better than some
    analog devices as far as energy managment in the home, but until
    we all live a bit simpler, I do not see it improving.

    Uh-huh. You first.

    Honestly, I think making stuff last and fixing stuff that does not work insteadof replacing it with newer stuff would place a big dent in resource
    consumption.

    It is just that wealthy societies get lazy and people would rather switch smartphones every 3 years for a kilobuck than have Big Tech corporations createsmartphones that *last*.

    I have a Nokia from the 6000 series, dented and covered by horse teeth marks. The thing works. Meanwhile a high-end smartphone has a target life of 5 years tops. Most people, however, is buying machines with shorter lifespans.

    The best sold smartphone series from Samsung is a budget line they market to Asians. Market research suggests their life cycle is 6 months short.

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  • From Mickey@VERT/INTERSPY to poindexter FORTRAN on Thu Jul 13 10:24:50 2023
    Re: Re: Energy
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Limawhiskey on Tue Jul 11 2023 06:42 am

    Limawhiskey wrote to All <=-

    Whatever happened to canteens?

    There are still many down in New Mexico. Some day I want to visit one and really get a bit of the old Mexicana atmosphere.

    Mickey

    ------------
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    Central Ontario Remote BBS
    centralontarioremote.com:2323

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  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANTIR to Moondog on Thu Jul 13 20:51:00 2023
    Moondog wrote to Gamgee <=-

    Tracker1 wrote to Moondog <=-

    Bottled water is convenient because it's already in disposable bottles. need to fill canteens.

    In places where water is scarce, it is easier to truck in pallets of bottled water than it is to install a water purifier that requiresparts and maintenence to keep them operable.

    Or, they could use large, reusable water tanks of already
    purified water (that would otherwise be in tiny bottles) and
    introduce less waste and micro plastics to the environment.

    I think maybe you don't have a good understanding of how the military operates, and what their priorities are.

    Pallet s of bottled water is an off the shelf commercial solution
    that is easily transportable. The bottles have a long shelf
    life.

    I know. I think maybe you have misunderstood my reply to Tracker1 right above. That's exactly the point of what I was saying about the military priorities. Also that the impact to the environment is not a huge
    concern. See?



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  • From Limawhiskey@VERT/HDCBBS to Tracker1 on Fri Jul 14 00:49:32 2023
    Re: Re: Energy
    By: Tracker1 to Moondog on Wed Jul 12 2023 03:06 pm

    Re: Re: Energy
    By: Moondog to poindexter FORTRAN on Tue Jul 11 2023 23:32:00

    Bottled water is convenient because it's already in disposable bottles. No need to fill canteens.

    In places where water is scarce, it is easier to truck in pallets of bottled water than it is to install a water purifier that requiresparts and maintenence to keep them operable.

    Or, they could use large, reusable water tanks of already purified water (that would otherwise be in tiny bottles) and introduce less waste and micro plastics to the environment.


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    +o roughneckbbs.com
    tracker1@roughneckbbs.com

    _______________________________________________________________________________Perhaps it is shipping logistics with a lack of in country reliable / secure water purification supples. I imagine that may be a major issue with it all.

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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Mickey on Thu Jul 13 21:31:00 2023
    Re: Re: Energy
    By: Mickey to poindexter FORTRAN on Thu Jul 13 2023 10:24 am

    Re: Re: Energy
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Limawhiskey on Tue Jul 11 2023 06:42 am

    Limawhiskey wrote to All <=-

    Whatever happened to canteens?

    There are still many down in New Mexico. Some day I want to visit one and re

    Mickey

    ------------
    Mick Manning
    Central Ontario Remote BBS
    centralontarioremote.com:2323

    Sounds like you're confusing a canteen(water carrier commonly associated with soldiers and boy scouts) and a cantina (a place to chill out and drink.)

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  • From Mickey@VERT/INTERSPY to Moondog on Fri Jul 14 10:19:50 2023
    Re: Re: Energy
    By: Moondog to Mickey on Thu Jul 13 2023 09:31 pm

    There are still many down in New Mexico. Some day I want to visit one and re

    Sounds like you're confusing a canteen(water carrier commonly associated with soldiers and boy scouts) and a cantina (a place to chill out and drink.)

    Damn, I thought cantina was spanglish for a canteen. :-)

    Mickey

    ------------
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    Central Ontario Remote BBS
    centralontarioremote.com:2323

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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Gamgee on Fri Jul 14 13:09:00 2023
    Re: Re: Energy
    By: Gamgee to Moondog on Thu Jul 13 2023 08:51 pm

    Moondog wrote to Gamgee <=-

    Tracker1 wrote to Moondog <=-

    Bottled water is convenient because it's already in disposable bottl need to fill canteens.

    In places where water is scarce, it is easier to truck in pallets of bottled water than it is to install a water purifier that requirespa and maintenence to keep them operable.

    Or, they could use large, reusable water tanks of already
    purified water (that would otherwise be in tiny bottles) and introduce less waste and micro plastics to the environment.

    I think maybe you don't have a good understanding of how the military operates, and what their priorities are.

    Pallet s of bottled water is an off the shelf commercial solution
    that is easily transportable. The bottles have a long shelf
    life.

    I know. I think maybe you have misunderstood my reply to Tracker1 right above. That's exactly the point of what I was saying about the military priorities. Also that the impact to the environment is not a huge
    concern. See?



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    Just agreeing with you, elaborating on the priorities and mindset. It's all g ood

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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Mickey on Sat Jul 15 00:23:00 2023
    Re: Re: Energy
    By: Mickey to Moondog on Fri Jul 14 2023 10:19 am

    Re: Re: Energy
    By: Moondog to Mickey on Thu Jul 13 2023 09:31 pm

    There are still many down in New Mexico. Some day I want to visit one re

    Sounds like you're confusing a canteen(water carrier commonly associated with soldiers and boy scouts) and a cantina (a place to chill out and drink.)

    Damn, I thought cantina was spanglish for a canteen. :-)

    Mickey

    ------------
    Mick Manning
    Central Ontario Remote BBS
    centralontarioremote.com:2323


    Canteen is one of those words that has several meaning. Other than a water container, canteen is often used do describe a cafeteria or break room at a work place or school. In the usage here, it was describing a refillable
    water carrier versus disposable water bottles.

    In the fourth Star Wars movie, Luke and Obi Wan went to a cantina to look a pilot/ride to Alderaan.

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  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Moondog on Sat Jul 15 23:09:32 2023
    Re: Re: Energy
    By: Moondog to Tracker1 on Thu Jul 13 2023 12:49:00

    Large water tanks require space to accomodate their form factor. If large enough, they require equipment to load and unload them. If a pallet full of small water bottles had to be unloaded and no lift truck or pallet jack was available, the contents could be unloaded by hand. Cut the packing wrap and grab some bottles.

    Large water tanks do require space, you would generally want tanks on base anyway, usually in an elevated position... the tank on the truck would never leave the truck, you would use a pump to transfer the water to the on-site location... similar to how you don't offload gas transport tanks at gas stations.


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  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Arelor on Sat Jul 15 23:21:43 2023
    Re: Energy
    By: Arelor to Limawhiskey on Thu Jul 13 2023 12:09:16

    Frankly, it makes more sense to keep using old cars and computers and devices until they break down than it does to build a more efficient one to replace a working old machine.

    The problem is that with this efficency craze we have started, we are achievingthe opposite effect of what s intended. If you use an old car you will see
    people get angry at you because you are taking the ecological option instead ofgetting a more efficient car XD

    +1 on this... People dramatically underestimate the impact of actually building new cars, especially with really big lithium battery packs. But zOMG, it's electric, it's not burning gas. Except the gas used to strip mine the minierals used to make the thing, the deisel used to transport the components halfway around the world multiple times, etc.

    It's "Reduce, Reuse, Recycle" not "buy new shiney" for a reason.


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  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANTIR to Tracker1 on Sun Jul 16 08:36:00 2023
    Tracker1 wrote to Arelor <=-

    Frankly, it makes more sense to keep using old cars and computers and devices until they break down than it does to build a more efficient one to replace a working old machine.

    The problem is that with this efficency craze we have started, we are achievingthe opposite effect of what s intended. If you use an old car you will see
    people get angry at you because you are taking the ecological option instead ofgetting a more efficient car XD

    Yes..... but see my additional comments below...

    +1 on this... People dramatically underestimate the impact of
    actually building new cars, especially with really big lithium
    battery packs. But zOMG, it's electric, it's not burning gas.
    Except the gas used to strip mine the minierals used to make the
    thing, the deisel used to transport the components halfway around
    the world multiple times, etc.

    And of course the damage to the environment in the vicinity of the
    mines... Devastation is a better description.

    It's "Reduce, Reuse, Recycle" not "buy new shiney" for a reason.

    But... to counter the comments above by Arelor, where he said people get
    angry at you for sticking with an old car... Is a person *obligated* to conform to that "Reduce/Reuse/Recycle" mantra? If a person has the
    means to "buy new shiney" when they choose to (regardless if the
    existing car is worn out), should they be villianized for doing so?

    I say they shouldn't be.


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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to TRACKER1 on Sun Jul 16 09:10:00 2023
    +1 on this... People dramatically underestimate the impact of actually
    uilding
    new cars, especially with really big lithium battery packs. But zOMG, it's
    le
    tric, it's not burning gas. Except the gas used to strip mine the minierals
    s
    d to make the thing, the deisel used to transport the components halfway
    round
    the world multiple times, etc.

    And the majority of some of those minerals comes from Africa where child
    and near-slave labor are used to mine them, and the environmental impact is alarming.


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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Tracker1 on Sun Jul 16 09:32:00 2023
    Tracker1 wrote to Arelor <=-

    It's "Reduce, Reuse, Recycle" not "buy new shiney" for a reason.

    We all need to buy and fix up 2000-2007 Toyotas and Hondas. Seems like
    that period was a sweet spot for low TCO and long mileage.

    I'd buy a 4 cylinder Camry from that time period, have it detailed and
    drive it for another 200K miles in a heartbeat.




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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANTIR to Gamgee on Sun Jul 16 18:27:17 2023
    Re: Re: Energy
    By: Gamgee to Tracker1 on Sun Jul 16 2023 08:36 am

    But... to counter the comments above by Arelor, where he said people get angry at you for sticking with an old car... Is a person *obligated* to conform to that "Reduce/Reuse/Recycle" mantra? If a person has the
    means to "buy new shiney" when they choose to (regardless if the
    existing car is worn out), should they be villianized for doing so?

    I say they shouldn't be.

    I would have less of a problem if people didn't want me to buy new things all the time.

    As it stands, society is structured around the idea that you *WILL* abbandon old working machinery, and if you don't, you *WILL* be villanized.

    You see it all the time. Some guy has a *modern* feature phone and one day he is told he will be required to use an Android or iOS App to access services he could use without any special means 10 years ago. If he does not get a smartphone which he only needs because somebody has decided he needs it, and discards the other one, he will be mocked no end.

    "Why do you keep using a scythe? Nobody uses that one anymore! Get a lawn trimmer, you fossile!" -> then 4 years later they ban oil powered gardening equipment and you get mocked for trying to use the trimmer you bought in order to keep up with the times.

    I can count with the tentacles of a tentacled monster from a hentai comic the number of times they have told me I should not be driving a car from 1989.

    It is specially bad with computer equipment because it goes obsolete blazing fast without a need for it to become obsolete. You need to step out of the commercial software sphere in order to keep using your computer for a reasonable ammount of time and then you become the weird guy who uses ancient machines. He probably has no social life and can't talk to girls. You know how these computer guys are.

    So in sight of these facts, evertime somebody admonishes me for not buying new stuff while burning through cars and phones and *fucking houses* themselves... well, they are gonna get my finger.


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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to poindexter FORTRAN on Sun Jul 16 19:42:00 2023
    Re: Re: Energy
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Tracker1 on Sun Jul 16 2023 09:32 am

    Tracker1 wrote to Arelor <=-

    It's "Reduce, Reuse, Recycle" not "buy new shiney" for a reason.

    We all need to buy and fix up 2000-2007 Toyotas and Hondas. Seems like
    that period was a sweet spot for low TCO and long mileage.

    I'd buy a 4 cylinder Camry from that time period, have it detailed and
    drive it for another 200K miles in a heartbeat.




    ... Curious ideas wait for stranger times

    Square body Chevys are pretty popular to restore. Gm kept that body style
    in production so long, parts are easy to find. I saw an article where the author did a frame-up restoration of a square body Chevy pickup, and replaced the motor with a salvage Duramax and had the equivalent of a new truck at a fraction of the cost of a new one and less electronics to go bad.

    When I saw frame-up, all springs, wires, shocks, and items that wear out over time were replaced. I'd like to se that done with an older model Toyota or Honda. Their motors last forever if properly maintained, it just the rest of the car falls apart around it.

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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Arelor on Mon Jul 17 08:46:00 2023
    Re: Re: Energy
    By: Arelor to Gamgee on Sun Jul 16 2023 06:27 pm

    Re: Re: Energy
    By: Gamgee to Tracker1 on Sun Jul 16 2023 08:36 am

    But... to counter the comments above by Arelor, where he said people get angry at you for sticking with an old car... Is a person *obligated* to conform to that "Reduce/Reuse/Recycle" mantra? If a person has the
    means to "buy new shiney" when they choose to (regardless if the
    existing car is worn out), should they be villianized for doing so?

    I say they shouldn't be.

    I would have less of a problem if people didn't want me to buy new things al the time.

    As it stands, society is structured around the idea that you *WILL* abbandon old working machinery, and if you don't, you *WILL* be villanized.

    You see it all the time. Some guy has a *modern* feature phone and one day h is told he will be required to use an Android or iOS App to access services could use without any special means 10 years ago. If he does not get a smartphone which he only needs because somebody has decided he needs it, and discards the other one, he will be mocked no end.

    "Why do you keep using a scythe? Nobody uses that one anymore! Get a lawn trimmer, you fossile!" -> then 4 years later they ban oil powered gardening equipment and you get mocked for trying to use the trimmer you bought in ord to keep up with the times.

    I can count with the tentacles of a tentacled monster from a hentai comic th number of times they have told me I should not be driving a car from 1989.

    It is specially bad with computer equipment because it goes obsolete blazing fast without a need for it to become obsolete. You need to step out of the commercial software sphere in order to keep using your computer for a reasonable ammount of time and then you become the weird guy who uses ancien machines. He probably has no social life and can't talk to girls. You know h these computer guys are.

    So in sight of these facts, evertime somebody admonishes me for not buying n stuff while burning through cars and phones and *fucking houses* themselves. well, they are gonna get my finger.


    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

    If it works and you can maintain it, run it until it dies or begins costing more money to operate it. Even in computers there is a point when items such as memory lose value, the gain value again when they become rare or scarce.

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  • From Phigan@VERT/TACOPRON to Arelor on Mon Jul 17 07:55:39 2023
    Re: Re: Energy
    By: Arelor to Gamgee on Sun Jul 16 2023 06:27 pm

    As it stands, society is structured around the idea that you *WILL* abbandon old working machinery, and if you don't, you *WILL* be villanized.

    Do you REALLY get villainized or do you just feel that way? I have and use a lot of old things.. I think at the most I get awkward smiles when people laugh to themselves that I'm using those old things, but I don't feel "villainized" per se.

    Maybe I just don't care much what other people think.

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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Moondog on Mon Jul 17 07:35:00 2023
    Moondog wrote to Arelor <=-

    If it works and you can maintain it, run it until it dies or begins costing more money to operate it. Even in computers there is a point
    when items such as memory lose value, the gain value again when they become rare or scarce.

    I'm shopping for a new computer mostly because I'm starting a business
    and can write off start-up costs. I'm having a hard time because my
    beat-up old computer is pretty good - it's from 2013 or so.

    The only thing that historically drives me to buy a new system are
    increasing upgrade costs. As parts become harder to find, the costs go
    up.

    With my last computer, finding DDR2 ECC RAM became so cost-prohibitive I
    picked up a newer generation computer with more memory for what the DDR2
    memory would cost. Not having USB 3.0 expansion meant I needed to buy an
    add-on card, adding to the cost.

    This time I'm looking to buy more RAM than I need right now, and move to
    NVMe storage.



    ... THE HEXAGONS OF AIM
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ .: realitycheckbbs.org :: scientia potentia est :.
  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANTIR to Arelor on Mon Jul 17 08:24:00 2023
    Arelor wrote to Gamgee <=-

    Re: Re: Energy
    By: Gamgee to Tracker1 on Sun Jul 16 2023 08:36 am

    But... to counter the comments above by Arelor, where he said people get angry at you for sticking with an old car... Is a person *obligated* to conform to that "Reduce/Reuse/Recycle" mantra? If a person has the
    means to "buy new shiney" when they choose to (regardless if the
    existing car is worn out), should they be villianized for doing so?

    I say they shouldn't be.

    I would have less of a problem if people didn't want me to buy
    new things all the time.

    As it stands, society is structured around the idea that you
    *WILL* abbandon old working machinery, and if you don't, you
    *WILL* be villanized.

    You see it all the time. Some guy has a *modern* feature phone
    and one day he is told he will be required to use an Android or
    iOS App to access services he could use without any special means
    10 years ago. If he does not get a smartphone which he only needs
    because somebody has decided he needs it, and discards the other
    one, he will be mocked no end.

    "Why do you keep using a scythe? Nobody uses that one anymore!
    Get a lawn trimmer, you fossile!" -> then 4 years later they ban
    oil powered gardening equipment and you get mocked for trying to
    use the trimmer you bought in order to keep up with the times.

    I can count with the tentacles of a tentacled monster from a
    hentai comic the number of times they have told me I should not
    be driving a car from 1989.

    It is specially bad with computer equipment because it goes
    obsolete blazing fast without a need for it to become obsolete.
    You need to step out of the commercial software sphere in order
    to keep using your computer for a reasonable ammount of time and
    then you become the weird guy who uses ancient machines. He
    probably has no social life and can't talk to girls. You know how
    these computer guys are.

    So in sight of these facts, evertime somebody admonishes me for
    not buying new stuff while burning through cars and phones and
    *fucking houses* themselves... well, they are gonna get my
    finger.

    Oh, I have no argument with anything you've said there. 100% full
    agreement. All I'm saying is that somebody shouldn't be villianized for buying new stuff, either. It's their choice, just like it is yours. Personally, I have plenty of old stuff, and plenty of new also. This
    laptop I'm typing on is 11 years old, and I have no intention of
    replacing it any time soon.

    To each his own.



    ... HAL 9000 - Dave. Put down those Windows disks. Please, Dave.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
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  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANTIR to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon Jul 17 08:30:00 2023
    poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Tracker1 <=-

    Tracker1 wrote to Arelor <=-

    It's "Reduce, Reuse, Recycle" not "buy new shiney" for a reason.

    We all need to buy and fix up 2000-2007 Toyotas and Hondas.
    Seems like
    that period was a sweet spot for low TCO and long mileage.

    Agreed. Had a 2007 Honda Accord that we held onto until 2021. For me
    that is VERY long.

    I'd buy a 4 cylinder Camry from that time period, have it
    detailed and drive it for another 200K miles in a heartbeat.

    Come on, a Camry can't go that far in just a heartbeat. They're just
    not that fast. ;-)



    ... Why did kamikaze pilots wear helmets?
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANTIR to Phigan on Mon Jul 17 17:45:41 2023
    Re: Re: Energy
    By: Phigan to Arelor on Mon Jul 17 2023 07:55 am

    Do you REALLY get villainized or do you just feel that way? I have and use a > lot of old things.. I think at the most I get awkward smiles when people lau > to themselves that I'm using those old things, but I don't feel "villainized > per se.

    There is a strong political movement around here according to which you murder 30 kittens every time you turn on a car from 2014 on or something.

    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

    ---
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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Phigan on Mon Jul 17 17:54:00 2023
    Re: Re: Energy
    By: Phigan to Arelor on Mon Jul 17 2023 07:55 am

    Re: Re: Energy
    By: Arelor to Gamgee on Sun Jul 16 2023 06:27 pm

    As it stands, society is structured around the idea that you *WILL* abban old working machinery, and if you don't, you *WILL* be villanized.

    Do you REALLY get villainized or do you just feel that way? I have and use a lot of old things.. I think at the most I get awkward smiles when people lau to themselves that I'm using those old things, but I don't feel "villainized per se.

    Maybe I just don't care much what other people think.


    I think it was China who is attempting to keep their economy strong by penalizing owners of older cars. Cars before 2013 do not meet their current emissions guidelines, and cannot be licensed or insured.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon Jul 17 18:03:00 2023
    Re: Re: Energy
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Moondog on Mon Jul 17 2023 07:35 am

    Moondog wrote to Arelor <=-

    If it works and you can maintain it, run it until it dies or begins costing more money to operate it. Even in computers there is a point when items such as memory lose value, the gain value again when they become rare or scarce.

    I'm shopping for a new computer mostly because I'm starting a business
    and can write off start-up costs. I'm having a hard time because my
    beat-up old computer is pretty good - it's from 2013 or so.

    The only thing that historically drives me to buy a new system are increasing upgrade costs. As parts become harder to find, the costs go
    up.

    With my last computer, finding DDR2 ECC RAM became so cost-prohibitive I picked up a newer generation computer with more memory for what the DDR2 memory would cost. Not having USB 3.0 expansion meant I needed to buy an add-on card, adding to the cost.

    This time I'm looking to buy more RAM than I need right now, and move to NVMe storage.



    ... THE HEXAGONS OF AIM

    I have an i3 3220 system still in use. It's 2013 vintage. It had 4gb of ram and I wanted to bump it up. I went to a local computer reseller, 2nd Look Computers, because I figured they would have DDR3 ram. They buy and sell desktops and laptops after they come off 3 year leases, and the tech told me the type of DDR3 I had was getting harder to find. He looked in his bin and found another 4gb stick, and gave it to me.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Phigan@VERT/TACOPRON to Moondog on Mon Jul 17 19:55:23 2023
    Re: Re: Energy
    By: Moondog to Phigan on Mon Jul 17 2023 05:54 pm

    I think it was China who is attempting to keep their economy strong by penalizing owners of older cars. Cars before 2013 do not meet their current

    To be fair, you probably wouldn't want a Chinese car older than 2013 :). Part of their motivation I bet is image.

    ---
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  • From fusion@VERT/CFBBS to Moondog on Tue Jul 18 04:36:00 2023
    On 17 Jul 2023, Moondog said the following...

    I think it was China who is attempting to keep their economy strong by penalizing owners of older cars. Cars before 2013 do not meet their current emissions guidelines, and cannot be licensed or insured.

    japan does something similar. second hand japanese cars in perfect condition are easily available even in the US, but definitely in AUS & NZ

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/25 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: cold fusion - cfbbs.net - grand rapids, mi
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to PHIGAN on Tue Jul 18 17:05:00 2023
    As it stands, society is structured around the idea that you *WILL*
    bbando
    old working machinery, and if you don't, you *WILL* be villanized.

    Do you REALLY get villainized or do you just feel that way? I have and use a lot of old things.. I think at the most I get awkward smiles when people
    augh
    to themselves that I'm using those old things, but I don't feel "villainized" per se.

    Maybe I just don't care much what other people think.

    I think it depends on what old things you are using. I think Arelor meant specifically gas-powered old things. Based on various government
    initiatives here over the years, I would have to say he is right. Some
    will certainly villianize you over holding onto your classic car, for
    example.


    * SLMR 2.1a * Software Independent: Won't work with ANY software.

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